This month’s Cake Slice Bakers cake from ‘Cake Keeper Cakes’ by Lauren Chattman was the Cinnamon Pudding Cake. This is one of those odd – not to mention slightly scary – recipes that involve making a simple batter and then pouring gallons of hot liquid over the top of it.
I told you the concept was scary.

However, it was delicous to eat, simple to make and exciting to observe the transformation from batter swimming in brown liquid to risen, cinnamon-butter-brown sugar scented pud.
There was discussion amongst the Bakers about how best to eat it and some feedback that as a ‘cake’ it was erring on the side of dryness. The recipe reminded me so much of sticky toffee pudding and our other favourite (which I must blog about), lemon layer surprise pudding, that it didn’t occur to me to serve it as a cake.
Instead, I could use my dinky 4.5″ pudding basins, halve the recipe and serve them hot as pudding/dessert/afters.
A dollop of thick cream wouldn’t have been a terrible idea, but in its absence, it stands very happily as a luscious and substantial dessert that uses no odd ingredients – a store cupboard recipe if ever there was one.

Preheat the oven to GM4/350/180. I used my top oven which runs a little hot, so GM4-5 is probably more accurate a description.

Take 4 dinky 4.5″ pudding bowls (they have a capacity of just over one cup) and grease them with butter.

To make the sauce, put 1/2 cup plus 2 tbsp brown sugar, one cup of water, 1oz unsalted butter and a pinch of salt into a small saucepan. The original recipe calls for less water than this, but the quantity I used was more in-line with similar recipes.

Bring to the boil

and then set aside whilst you see to the batter.

Now I altered the method here slightly. The original recipe tells you to cream butter and sugar, then add the cinnamon-y flour alternatively with vanilla-y milk, but frankly, it’s so near a pancake batter that I decided to make it that way.

So, combine 1 cup plain flour, 1 tsp cinnamon, 1 tsp baking powder and a pinch of salt together in a bowl, then stir in 1/2 cup light brown sugar. Make a well in the middle.

Combine 1/2 cup milk, a splash of vanilla extract and 1 lightly beaten egg (the egg wasn’t in the original recipe, but the general consensus was that it was a good addition) and pour into the well along with 2oz melted butter.

Whisk together to combine and divide amongst the individual pudding basins

So far, so good. Now pour the sauce over the batter. Yes really. I turned a spoon over and touched it to the inside of the basin, then poured the sauce over that to avoid making a hole in the batter when pouring it in.

It looks terrifying, doesn’t it?

Into the oven for 20-25 minutes until they are risen, firm and golden.

The pudding basins are, obviously, extremely hot, so let them sit for 5 minutes, then serve them on a plate or soup bowl, in our case, with a teaspoon.

See that sauce lurking beneath?

How nice was it?

This nice:

(and there’s one left over! Yay!)

Edited to add: The three of us split the remaining one tonight. It was cold (the pudding, not the night – although it was a very cold evening. ANYWAY,) and nowhere near as good as it was hot. The sauce had thickened and was an odd texture – almost gelatinous and the flavour was not as intense, so my advice is to eat it hot. That is all.

Check out the Cake Slice Baker’s blogroll to see everyone else’s take on the recipe.

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Cinnamon Pudding Cake by Lauren Chattman

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The Topping:
1/2 cup plus 2 tbsp light brown sugar
1 cup water
1oz unsalted butter
pinch of salt

The Cake:
1 cup plain flour
1 tsp baking powder
1 tsp cinnamon
pinch salt
1/2 cup light brown sugar
2oz unsalted butter, melted
1/2 cup milk
1 tsp vanilla extract

Preheat oven to GM4/180C/350F
Butter 4 small ovenproof pudding basins of 4.5″, just over 1 cup capacity and place them on an oven sheet/tray.

Into a small saucepan, place the topping ingredients. Bring to the boil – stirring occasionally – then set aside off the heat. Transfer to a jug for easier pouring later.

Into a bowl, put the flour, baking powder, salt and cinnamon. Whisk together to combine.
Stir in the sugar and make a well in the middle.
In a jug, whisk together the milk, vanilla extract and egg, then pour this into the well.
Pour in the melted butter and combine with a hand whisk to get a smooth batter.

Divide the batter equally amongst the four basins.
Pour the topping sauce over the batter – pour over the back of a spoon to avoid stirring it all up too much – then put the basins (on their tray) into the oven for 20-25 mins, until golden, risen and firm. A toothpick will come out pretty much clean.

Sit for 5 minutes, then serve – warning your guests that the basins and the pudding is extremely hot. You can let the puddings sit to cool, but the sauce thickens significantly and we decided we would rather have a nuclear-hot dessert with a runny sauce!

Delightful Bread Pudding – not to be confused with its richer cousin, bread and butter pudding – is another way to use up stale bread.
As my Grandad pointed out to my Mum, the addition of dried fruit, butter, sugar, eggs and spices makes it a very expensive way of using up cheap stale bread, but it is delicious and filling. Just the thing to plug the vast, bottomless hunger hole that inhabits the space between coming home from school and eating dinner.
Speaking of children, this is a really good recipe for kids to make – the tearing of bread is laborious, but passes more quickly with someone chatting to you, little hands are good at squeezing water from soggy bread and they can beat it half to death with a wooden spoon because you can’t overmix bread pudding.

Interestingly, Grandad’s recipe book lists the recipe as a hot pudding to be eaten with custard, but we never ate it this way; no, it’s strictly left to cool and cut into slabs to be devoured as you would a piece of cake. A very substantial piece of cake, mind you, but still that’s our eating method of choice.
Yes, it’s a good rainy day recipe and it’s decidedly Autumnal here now. Sad for us to bid farewell to hot days, but great for good traditional bread pudding!

Take your stale bread

and tear it into ‘feeding small birds’ pieces. Not swans. Little birds.

Pour over enough cold water to saturate it. I used about 1½ pints, but start with 1 pint. There’s nothing to stop you drowning it completely, but it just increases the amount of time you spend squeezing the water out afterwards.
Let it sit for an hour to get thoroughly soggy.

Putting a couple of handful of soggy bread in the sieve at a time, squeeze and press the water out. You can use whatever utensil you like, but I had great success using my hands.

Once it’s all been squeezed, return to a large bowl and beat with a wooden spoon until it’s mushy and smoother.

Add the raisins, sugar, cinnamon and mixed spice and beat them in.
Add the beaten eggs and melted butter and beat that in too.

Add a little milk (I used about 2 tbsp) to achieve a nice dropping consistency

Pour into a greased baking tin (mine was 9×13″) and sprinkle some demerara sugar and a good rasping of nutmeg over the top. Bake for 1½ to 2 hours.

Until browned, firm and pulling away from the edges of the tin.

Cool in the tin, sprinkle with more sugar and cut into slabs, squares or dainty fingers.

Enjoy!

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Bread Pudding

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1 lb stale bread
9oz raisins
4oz sugar
4oz butter, melted or very soft
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp mixed spice
2 eggs, beaten
Milk to mix
Nutmeg and Demerara sugar to dredge

Tear the bread into small ‘feed the birds’ pieces.
Pour over cold water to saturate the bread – anything between 1 and 2 pints depending on the staleness of your bread. Leave to soak for an hour.

Heat oven to GM3/160/325
Grease a baking tin of around 9×13″.

Put a couple of handfuls of soggy bread at a time into a nylon sieve and strain and squeeze as much water as you can out of the bread. Beat with a wooden spoon to reduce to mush.
Add the fruit, butter, spices and eggs and beat together. Add enough milk to get a soft dropping consistency, but don’t let it get too wet. I only needed about 2 tbsps.
Pour into the tin and scatter with Demerara sugar and a good rasping of nutmeg.

Bake for 1 1/2 to 2 hours until firm and pulled away from the side of the tin.
Cool in the tin, then when cold, cut into slabs or daintier fingers. Dredge with more sugar if you like.

Store in an airtight container – you can also freeze it.

Warmed by a hint of cinnamon and nutmeg, this date paste and toasted pecan filling is addictive! I’m thinking they will be nice alternatives to mince pies at Christmas.

I was toying with ideas of how to use dates more in cooking, because they seem to be so reasonably priced at the moment, and thought I’d start by stewing them down and taking it from there. The spices, as I said, warmed it up (and let’s face it, dates and spices are an obvious match), but it was Ian’s idea to add some nuts to give it more texture.  It’s worked beautifully!

I could extol its healthy virtues, because there is no sugar in this filling recipe, but the dates are teeming with their own natural sugars and the shortbread pastry is far from healthy… a half healthy treat? Yum.

1 packet of around 250g dates. They’re not medjool, but they are sticky and delicious. I paid about 80p for this packet.

Slit down the length and pop out the stone (I think this is my favourite photo ever – freaky deaky, dude)

Cut in half across the width and put into a small saucepan. Add cold water – ‘up to its shoulders’ is the expression that Dad and I use.  ‘Just over half way’, is the expression Mum and I use.

Put the lid on and bring it up to the boil, then remove the lid and simmer for about 15 mins. This is after about 5 mins.  It’s like boiling a pan of insects, but just relax and go with it.

After 15 mins, the dates are all tender and are becoming a paste

Add cinnamon – you can see it was probably a scant 1/4 tsp, any more than that would dominate the flavour too much. I also scraped a nutmeg a couple of times. Gently, gently, think warm exotic breath, think desert breezes.

Depending on your dates, you may be able to leave it at that, but the skins on the dates I used were too intrusive into the texture, so I whizzed it with a hand blender and that pushed it firmly into puree land. Leave in a bowl to cool.

The pecans. I didn’t photograph this, because it was pointless. Take a handful of pecans – maybe 1/2 cup – and dry fry them in a frying pan. That is, put them in a small frying pan and toss them over and move them around with the heat on. They’re done when you can see that parts of them are bronzed. They also snap much more cleanly and are more brittle when they’re done – a matter of a few minutes.

Spread them out on a plate to cool, then chop into small-ish pieces. They don’t leap around once they’re toasted and the flavour is noticeably improved.

Make your shortbread pastry and use it to line your patty tins. (see the pastry post – this pastry only excels in patty tins)

Fill the pastry with a spoonful of date paste and a sprinkle of toasted pecans

Put the pastry lid on top, squidge up the sides to join the two, brush with beaten egg and bake at GM6/200C/400F for 20 mins.

Yum.

Carefully remove them from their little holes with a small offset spatula to a wire rack

and dredge them with icing or caster sugar. You can see in this profile that whilst the bottom of the tin is shallow, the filling is piled up inside.

Speaking of inside… asdjbgfiub…mmm….hgfjuiozsg. Sorry, had a mouthful.

Sweet, sticky, nutty (reminds me a bit of pecan pie, but in a more natural way). Moreish. Not Moorish (although, with the spices…), but very more-ish.

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Date and Pecan Pies

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250g dates, stoned and halved
1/4 tsp cinnamon
scrape of nutmeg

1/2 cup pecans

Place the dates in a small saucepan, half cover with cold water, put the lid on and bring to the boil.
Remove the lid and reduce heat to low. Simmer for around 15 mins, stirring as necessary.

Meanwhile, heat a small frying pan. Add the pecans to the dry pan. Stirring and tossing them, allow them to toast until bronzed and fragrant.
Spread out on a large plate to cool. Once cool, chop into small-ish pieces, but don’t reduce them to crumbs.

Once the dates are softened and looking like a paste, add the cinnamon and nutmeg. Be mean with the spices.
Check the date paste is at a consistency you like – if it’s too coarse, whizz it with a hand blender to puree it further. Remove to a bowl to cool.

It’s yours to do with as you wish now. It would be gorgeous stirred into a thick, creamy yogurt – maybe even as a sweet dip?

Or, you could make little pies with it using the shortbread pastry

Fill the lined tin with a spoonful of the date paste and a sprinkle of the pecans.

Pop a pastry lid on top, brush with beaten egg and bake at GM6/200C/400F for 20 mins.

Remove from the tin with a small offset spatula and cool on a wire rack. Dredge with caster or icing sugar.

I had most of a pot of sour cream left over, so I had to make something with it, right? Luckily, I still have a little left over, so I can sense some fajitas in the not-so-distant future.

I wanted a really cinnamon flavoured cake, but I didn’t want to put any nuts in it, so this was the answer. Moist, tender crumbed, cinnamon-y enough to satisfy – more than a nice way to use up sour cream.

Preheat oven to GM4-5/350-375F/180-190C (I know that’s annoying, but GM4 was a little too low and I think GM5 would scorch the top)
Grease and line a 9″ round tin.

The usual prep:

Sift 1 cup plain flour, a pinch of salt, 1/2 tsp baking powder and 1/2 tsp bicarbonate of soda into a medium bowl.
Mix 1/4 cup firmly packed dark brown sugar and 1 tsp cinnamon in a small bowl. Set both bowls aside.

In a large bowl, put 2oz unsalted butter and 2/3 cup caster sugar. Cream until fluffy (high five!)
Add 1 tsp vanilla extract and beat that in.

Add 2 eggs, one at a time, beat them in thoroughly.
Add 1/2 cup (125ml) sour cream and beat that in well.

Add the flour mix next and either combine it with a hand whisk or a large spatula.

Spoon half the batter into the tin and smooth it out

Sprinkle the sugar-cinnamon mix evenly over that

Then spoon the remaining batter over the top and smooth that out too.

Bake for 30-40 mins.

Leave to cool in the tin for 5 mins, then remove from the tin and cool on a wire rack. See how the cinnamon has migrated around? Kind of cool.

Once completely cool, make up the icing.
In a bowl, put 1 cup icing sugar and 1 tsp cinnamon. (I had only added about 1/2 tsp in this pic and ended up adding more)

Add 1 tbsp milk and combine with a hand whisk. If it’s too stiff, add more milk. Check it’s got enough of a cinnamon taste.

Using a teaspoon, drizzle the glace icing over the top.

Allow the icing to set, then serve. Oh, it is so tender… never mind left over sour cream, it’s worth buying a tub for!

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Cinnamon Sour Cream Cake

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1 cup plain flour
1/2 tsp baking powder
1/2 tsp bicarbonate of soda
pinch salt
2oz unsalted butter
2/3 cup caster sugar
1 tsp vanilla extract
2 eggs
1/2 cup (125ml) sour cream
1/4 cup firmly packed dark brown sugar
1 tsp cinnamon

1 cup icing sugar
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1-2 tbsp milk

Preheat oven to GM4-5/350-375F/180-190C (I know that’s annoying, but GM4 was a little too low and I think GM5 would scorch the top)
Grease and line a 9″ round tin

Sift together the flour, baking powder and bicarb in a medium bowl.
In a small bowl, combine the dark brown sugar and cinnamon. Set both bowls aside.

In a large bowl, cream together the butter and sugar until fluffy.
Beat in the vanilla extract, then the eggs.
Add the sour cream and beat well to combine.

Gently, either by whisking or with a spatula, add the flour and combine.

Spoon half the batter into the tin and smooth it.
Scatter the cinnamon-sugar mix evenly over the batter.
Spoon the remaining batter on top and smooth.

Bake for 30-40 mins or until a toothpick comes out cleanly.
Cool in the tin for 5 mins, then remove from tin and cool on a wire rack.

Once cool, make the glace icing.
Put the icing sugar and cinnamon into a medium bowl and combine with a hand whisk.
Add 1 tbsp milk, whisk and add more if necessary.
Using a teaspoon, drizzle the icing over the cake.

Allow the icing to set, then serve.

So I was chatting to Auntie Rene on the phone the other night; we were talking about this blog and she started revealing some culinary secrets and more to the point, sharing some of her recipes! I have a few lined up, but started with this one given to Rene years ago by a friend of hers.

It sounded good from the off, it was easy to make and it tastes absolutely delicious. There is one diced apple in the recipe and it adds such a different dimension to the flavour. There is no apple taste per se, just a rounded layer of flavour. It’s genius. Ian said it reminded him of a kashmir curry and he’s right. He experimented with the leftovers by putting a very mean drizzle of double cream in and stirring that round – it changed the dish again. So bear that in mind as an option if you like creamy curries; that taster was a bit rich for me, so keep it mean.

Start by melting 1oz butter in a saucepan with a drizzle of oil.
Add 1 chopped onion and 1 clove of crushed garlic.

Saute until softened.

Spices are so attractive. If I am reincarnated as an inanimate object, I shall be a spice.

So add the 2-3 tsp medium curry powder (or hot, if you prefer), ½tsp ground ginger and ½tsp ground cinnamon. Fry these spices off for a good 5 mins, but keep the heat low and keep stirring.

Add ½tbsp flour and stir that in.

Things need to cool a bit, so add 300ml (½ pint) water and stir that in.

To that, add 1tsp instant stock powder, 2 tbsp mango chutney, 400g chopped tomatoes and a peeled, cored and diced apple. You can add 1 tbsp sultanas if you like; I only like them in cakes, personally.

Slap the lid on, keep the heat really low and simmer for about 45 mins. Keep checking and stirring it, because it does thicken up and will catch in the blink of an eye. Add more water if it’s getting too thick for your liking.
Check the seasoning – it was a bit bitter at first, but some salt sorted that out nicely.

Add some meat/seafood or veggies to it. Rene’s listed examples were chicken, pork or lamb. We went for chicken, but my Mum tasted the sauce and thought that prawns would go very nicely with it – will certainly do that next time.
Fry the chicken pieces off in a frying pan to colour them,

then add the pieces to the sauce

Simmer for about 15 -20mins (with the lid off ) or until the chicken is cooked through.

Stir through a little cream if you wish – but do taste it first. Man, it’s good.
Serve with rice.

Fruity Curry

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1oz butter
drizzle of oil
1 onion, chopped
1 clove garlic, crushed
2 tsp medium curry powder
½ tsp ground ginger
½ tsp ground cinnamon
½ tbsp flour
1 tsp instant stock
2 tbsp mango chutney
400g chopped tomatoes
1 apple, peeled, cored and diced
300ml water
2 chicken breasts, chunked (or pork, lamb, beef or prawns)
drizzle of cream to stir in at the end (optional)

Melt the butter and oil in a saucepan.
Add the onion and garlic and saute until softened.
Add the spices and saute them for 5 mins, being very careful not to let them catch.
Add the flour, stir that in, then add the water and stir well to combine.
Add the mango chutney, stock powder, tomatoes and apple.
Put the lid on the saucepan and simmer on a low heat for 45 mins, stirring very frequently to avoid scorching.

In a frying pan, fry off the pieces of chicken in a little oil to brown them.
Add the chicken to the curry sauce.
Simmer for 15-20 mins with the lid off to cook the chicken through and keep the sauce nice and thick.

Serve with rice and/or green veg.

There is an unmistakeable cinnamon and brown sugar warmth to this sweet, juicy apple pie made with flaky, easy to make, pastry.
Ian said that when warm, it reminded him of the apple pie that one gets from the Golden Arches. He then went on to say that he meant that in a good way.

I struck him across the face with my silk-lined muff, but I know what he meant – it’s that warm spicy sweetness and the slight firmness to the apple – just without the freaky fat-laden fried pastry. Cheeky swine.
It’s a good one, this recipe. You need a 9″ deep pie plate for this pie.
A quick word about the pastry. I have a little bit of a pastry avoidance issue, but the ease of this recipe has almost cured me. Freezing the fat and using ice cold water keeps everything cold. Cold is good for pastry. Using the processor keeps warm fingertips out of the way and works quickly to avoid over handling the dough. Honestly, it’s OK – have a go and channel your inner Grandparent who would faint if they knew you used bought pastry.

First prepare the fat. Put 3 oz unsalted butter, cut into chunks and 6 oz Trex (vegetable shortening) cut into chunks on to a piece of greaseproof paper and into the freezer. That was easy!

Place 2 ½ cups flour, a pinch of salt and 2 tsp sugar into a food processor and pulse to combine.

Evenly distribute the frozen fats over the top of the flour

and pulse until it looks like coarse breadcrumbs. Stop!

Add 6 tbsp of the ice water and pulse until it just begins to come together. Don’t let it form a ball – think rubble.  If it really is too dry, add another tbsp, but be cautious.

Turn the rubble out on to the work surface and separate into two piles.

Gather each pile into a disc, wrap both in clingfilm and refrigerate for at least 2 hrs, or up to 3 days.

7

Dude. You just made pastry.

Once you’re ready to bake, heat the oven to GM5/190C/375F

Allow the dough to soften, then place on a floured work surface and lightly sprinkle flour over the dough.
Occasionally moving the dough to prevent sticking and adding flour to the surface as necessary, roll out from the middle in every direction until you get a 12″ round.

Carefully and loosely, wrap the dough around the rolling pin and transfer it to a 9″ deep pie plate. Persuade it into the edge at the bottom and around the sides. Leave a 1″ overhang.
On a piece of greaseproof paper, roll the other disc out for the lid, then put the dough (on its paper) on to a baking tray.
Put the baking tray with paper and dough, plus the pastry-lined tin into the fridge to rest whilst you interfere with some apples.

Make the filling.
Get out 2 ½ lbs eating apples (about 6-7 medium sized apples). I can’t tell you the variety because MIL gave them to me and she and Auntie Rene had snaffled them from Jane and Colin’s tree. Thanks for the apples, Jane and Colin! (I don’t think they know I had some, but they dooooo now!)

Peel, core and slice (about ¼” thick) the apples. Put them into a large bowl and sprinkle with the lemon juice as you drop another handful of slices in. How much difference it really makes to any discolouration, I wouldn’t like to say.

In a small bowl, combine 2 tbsp cornflour, ⅓ cup caster sugar, ⅔ cup firmly packed light brown sugar, 1 tsp cinnamon, ½ tsp nutmeg (freshly grated), a pinch of salt and ½ tsp mixed spice

Sprinkle this mix over the apple slices and mix well to thoroughly coat them.
Spoon into the pastry-lined pie place and dot with 1 tbsp butter, cut into small pieces

Pick up the pastry on the greaseproof paper and flip it on top of the filled pie. Peel the paper off.

Trim the edges to leave just under a 1″ overhang.
Press the edges of the crusts together and tuck it under itself, pressing on to the edge of the pie plate.
Pinch to pretty up the edge of the crust.

Make some small slashes on the top of the pie to allow steam to escape.

Brush the top with milk and sprinkle with sugar.
Bake for 1hr or until the top is golden brown and the apples are tender to the tip of a knife.

It’s really juicy inside when it’s warm

but firms up when cold

Simply put; you can’t go wrong.

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Apple Pie
(adapted from a recipe by Tish Boyle)

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crust:
2 ½ cups plain flour
2 tsp caster sugar
pinch salt
3 oz unsalted butter, cut into chunks and frozen
6 oz Trex (vegetable shortening) cut into chunks and frozen
6 – 8 tbsp ice cold water

filling:
2 ½ lbs eating apples (about 6-7 medium sized apples)
1 tbsp lemon juice
2 tbsp cornflour
⅓ cup caster sugar
⅔ cup firmly packed light brown sugar
1 tsp cinnamon
½ tsp nutmeg (freshly grated)
pinch salt
½ tsp mixed spice
1 tbsp unsalted butter cut into small-ish bits

Crust:
Place the flour, salt and sugar into a food processor and pulse to combine.
Evenly distribute the frozen fats over the top of the flour and pulse until it looks like coarse breadcrumbs.
Add 6 tbsp of the ice water and pulse until it just begins to come together. Don’t let it form a ball.
Turn the rubble out on to the work surface and separate into two piles.
Gather each pile into a disc, wrap both in clingfilm and refrigerate for at least 2 hrs, or up to 3 days.

Allow the dough to soften, then place on a floured work surface and lightly sprinkle flour over the dough.
Occasionally moving the dough to prevent sticking and adding flour to the surface as necessary, roll out from the middle in every direction until you get a 12″ round.

Carefully and loosely, wrap the dough around the rolling pin and transfer it to a 9″ deep pie plate. Persuade it into the edge at the bottom and around the sides. Leave a 1″ overhang.
On a piece of greaseproof paper, roll the other disc out for the lid, then put the dough (on its paper) on to a baking tray.
Put the baking tray with paper and dough, plus the pastry-lined tin into the fridge to rest.

Make the filling.
Peel, core and slice (about ¼” thick) the apples. Put them into a large bowl and sprinkle with the lemon juice as you drop another handful of slices in.
In a small bowl, combine the cornflour, sugars, spices and salt.
Sprinkle this mix over the apple slices and mix well to thoroughly coat them.
Spoon into the pastry-lined pie place and dot with the pieces of butter.

Pick up the pastry on the greaseproof paper and flip it on top of the filled pie. Peel the paper off.
Trim the edges to leave just under a 1″ overhang.
Press the edges of the crusts together and tuck it under itself, pressing on to the edge of the pie plate.
Pinch to pretty up the edge of the crust.
Make some small slashes on the top of the pie to allow steam to escape.

Brush the top with milk and sprinkle with sugar.
Bake for 1hr or until the top is golden brown and the apples are tender to the tip of a knife.